#326: Boosting Your In-Person & Virtual Presence with Katie Thomas

KATIE THOMAS has spent the past 10 years working in marketing, sales, accounting gaining a unique perspective on the intersection between positioning, selling, and running profitable businesses. Whilst working for one of the largest corporations in America, she saw first-hand how many professionals missed out on business opportunities because of their lack of online presence, and she doesn’t want that to happen to you. When it comes to thought leadership, there’s not a one size fits all approach. She has built her online reputation from the ground up and know how to help you do the same. 

She also helps executives become thought leaders online so they can increase their influence, impact, and income. Build a strong personal brand and grow a network of engaged followers. Produce content that reaches the right people and positions you as an authority. Gain access to leadership and business opportunities.  

Katie holds a CPA designation, has a Masters of Accounting and is based out of Kansas City, Kansas, USA 

Key Quotes from the Episode: 

[On the importance of training people] “your people are your biggest asset, especially in accounting and finance, it’s a professional service. So why aren’t we training these people? And if they’re not being trained. How good are they at these skills by the time they reach that level [05:32] 

[On effectively reaching out to people online] we have to think about ultimately taking what we do in person, which is creating connections, building the know, like, and trust and translating that online [08:04] 

[On leveraging and improving your online presence] “Use influencers and really leverage their audience and also try to just leverage them as well. Maybe you can collaborate with them. Maybe you don’t have like a competing offer anything.” [15:38] 

[On creating online content] “if you had those questions or went through those struggles, other people are looking for that information too, and you can create endless content about it.” [17:30] 

[On building your online presence] “If you’re brand new, it’s going to be your job to go introduce yourself. Talk to people, engage with people. And the same is true online.” [23:19] 

[On career advise] “embrace your youness because as we continue to grow in our skillset, you become more clear that your skills are more geared in certain directions” [24:19] 

[On retaining one’s humanity] “just always lead with empathy and just care whether you’re talking about building an online presence or you’re having a conversation with your boss and employee, anyone, as long as you just know at the end of the day, you’re human and they’re human, things are going to go well, that’s the best you can do.” [27:57] 

Key Points from the Episode: 

  • How Katie started her career in marketing and now focuses on helping other professionals become online thought leaders.  
  • The 4Cs process of creating connections(Choose, Connect, Convert, Create) 
  • How know, like and trust works in the digital era of marketing. 
  • How to build and connect your online presence to other key influencers.  

Stamped Show Notes 

[02:54] Katie shares her how she ended up in her present career in digital marketing focussing on helping other professionals become online thought leaders, from her start in sales and marketing, then moving to accounting & becoming a CPA and what made her focus more again on marketing & development.  

[05:21] The importance of training, network building and mentoring. 

[07:34] Katie shares and deconstructs how digital marketing works and how it can help finance & accounting professionals. 

[12:27] The 4Cs process of creating connections. (Choose, Connect, Convert, Create). 

[19:21] The know, like and trust principle of marketing. 

[22:30] How to build presence in a new environment. 

[23:49] Katie’s best advice ever received. 

[25:31] Recommended books and resources  

[26:42] Social media accounts and website 

[27:27] Parting thoughts for finance professionals 

Resources Mentioned: 

How to Win Friends & Influence People Paperback – October 1, 1998 by Dale Carnegie (Author) 

4 C Process handouthttps://leaders-online.com/4cprocess/ 

Connect with today’s guest: 

LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/katiethomascpa 

Website:  https://www.leaders-online.com 

Twitter: https://twitter.com/katiethomascpa 

Complete Transcript 

[00:00:30]Andrew[00:00:30] Hi, everyone. And welcome to this week’s strength in the numbers. 

[00:00:33]And I’m really happy to share with you today. This week’s guest mentor, some of you may have come across Katie Thomas CPA, 

[00:00:39]And as you’re listening to this week’s episode, what you’ll find about Katie is there’s a number of fascinating things. First off her story, how she actually started in sales and marketing within a family owned business, then chose to leap into an accounting career and get her CPA letters. 

[00:00:59] And then actually what triggered her to go back into sales and marketing, helping all the professionals become online thought leaders 

[00:01:07]and in amongst all that gives us some tremendous tips on what we can do in our careers. For instance, the importance of network building and mentoring, the four CS process of creating connections. Katie helps in deconstructs for us, how digital marketing actually works and how it can benefit. So finance and accounting professionals and leveraging things that we’re already doing just in a bit more thoughtful and aware manner, such as the know, like trust principle of marketing. 

[00:01:36] We do this without even thinking about it, but it’s great that Katie puts some sort of structure and framework around it that helps us build more presence in this more virtual environment. A lot of us have found ourselves in. 

[00:01:49]And then to wrap it up, Katie has got some fantastic parting thoughts are not going to give away. Now I’ll wait till you get to the end, but very important advice for our listeners as well. So look, hope you enjoyed this week’s episode if you did. We really appreciate it when you share it with your friends and colleagues on all the major platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, YouTube, Spotify, and Amazon music. 

[00:02:08]And you can also check out detailed timestamps, shownotes key quotes way to connect with Katie. Our conversation transcripts, and much more at sitnshow.com and as always, really appreciate you investing in time with us today. So I think that’s enough for me. So without further ado, over to Katie and the show. 

[00:02:25] So Katie welcome to the show. 

[00:02:33] Katie: [00:02:33] Hey Andrew. Thanks so much for having me on today. 

[00:02:36]Andrew[00:02:36] I’m  delighted. And some of our audience may not know this. I’ve actually been a follower of yours for the last few years. And, I suppose I used to tune into a lot of your Facebook lives. For some of our audience, you might be familiar to them, but in terms of our broader audience may not be as familiar. So what you might maybe sharing your story and background and accounting and finance, please. 

[00:02:54] Katie: [00:02:54] Yeah. So I am a CPA. I now run a digital marketing agency that helps accounting and financial professionals increase their impact, influence, and income through thought leadership, marketing online. We work a lot in social media. We do websites, SEO landing pages, and paid advertising. So pretty much all things, accounting and finance and digital marketing. That’s my wheel house. 

[00:03:22]Andrew[00:03:22] I was just thinking, what we’re studying towards our CPA exams or whatever ones we end up taking as accounting or finance professionals, those sorts of things. We tend not really to see in the papers. We don’t tend to get examined on those more technical things, but in today’s age, they’re quite key topic areas. So how did you get into all of that, Katie? 

[00:03:40] Katie: [00:03:40] Yeah. So actually I started out my journey with sales and marketing at a really young age. I mean, I was the kid that always had the side hustle, multiple businesses growing up. And when it came time to go pick a career path in college, everyone said, okay, accounting, that’s the language of business you should go into that. 

[00:04:00] And at the time, I started cold calling at 16. That was my first job, did sales and marketing for a family-owned business all the way until I took my first public accounting job. So I really liked sales and marketing, but again, I was told, Hey, don’t go down that route.  If you want to own a business, someday, you should go into accounting. 

[00:04:18] And so I took the classes, I really liked them. It made a lot of sense. And then. In the States if you get an accounting degree, they really encourage you to go ahead and get your master’s so that you can sit for the CPA. And once you get the CPA, it’s like you actually have to go work certain places to get the experience required, to not just pass the exams, but have the license. 

[00:04:39] So. I went in to public accounting, knowing that it probably wasn’t for me, but I did find things I really liked about it. And while I was there, I actually spoke to one of the partners and I said like, Hey, I know that I’m doing a great job for you guys, but I really, I really miss the more like sales and marketing side of things. 

[00:05:01] And I don’t really care which place you put me, but I want to do some sort of business development work. And they basically laughed at me and were like, Hey, you don’t do that until, you’re really like a senior manager . And what I found interesting was that they like up until that point, I noticed that they don’t really train you on any sort of like marketing and sales, and it seems like that those kinds of things would be really important to be, even if you weren’t doing them until later on in your career, like, why aren’t we talking about this? And your people are your biggest asset, especially in accounting and finance, it’s a professional service. 

[00:05:38] So why aren’t we training these people? And if they’re not being trained. How good are they at these skills by the time they reach that level. And so it was an immediate connection there. I was like, wait, there’s probably some opportunity here. Especially whenever I started talking to my peers and my managers, my senior managers, the partners. 

[00:05:59] And like you ask them these questions. They’re like, no, I hate it. I don’t enjoy it.  Or maybe like, even some of them shared stories about how it was uncomfortable for them to like step into that role. And so I thought, there’s probably an opportunity here. And then ultimately I was like, okay, I’m going to go out. I’m going to try this. Cause that’s what I love. And that’s how we got to where we’re at today.  

[00:06:20] Andrew: [00:06:21] I have to say like a, I’m talking about a kindred spirit before actually trained to be a chartered accountant. I actually worked in sales and marketing myself and field sales. And, I suppose you learn a lot in there and you get comfortable with the uncomfortable.  I liked the way you played that backpackers. 

[00:06:36] I think that’s a common challenge. A lot of people entering into practice or public practice for the first time. And even to some degree in organizations, because you think about executives, right. They probably get older to coaching and go on. They sort of presents workshops and understand the importance of network building. 

[00:06:51] Even though I suppose the splendiferous out there who aren’t really comfortable with that. So I think what you’re saying resonates a lot with our audience. And another key point, you mentioned is a, if people are really our assets and we’re finance training, then obviously you want to get the most out of all your assets and make them more productive. 

[00:07:08]And I guess  two key elements of that one is. It’s our network, I suppose, the value of how productive we can be the size of our networks and who knows our skills. And that’s the other one, I guess, is people who know us that we’re present to them and they know if there’s an opportunity, how we can help them and how they can perhaps help us. 

[00:07:24]So Katie, it’s a very important topic. Where do you to start with trying to begin doing the right things? 

[00:07:30] Katie: [00:07:30] Yeah. So if we’re going to be talking about it, like in a digital world, which that’s a great place to start, no matter if you’re listening to this during kind of the lockdown still, or post locked down, the digital landscape sends us a great opportunity to actually give us a platform and a voice to reach thousands and really endless numbers of people, but we have to think about ultimately taking what we do in person, which is creating connections, building the know, like, and trust and translating that online, which that’s going to take you thinking about. Okay. Whenever you think about these big brands, what are they doing that really gets us to know them, to like them, to trust them. 

[00:08:14] And when you think about it, they give us some sort of feeling. So think about like Nike, we see their commercials. They’re saying, just do it. It’s super inspirational. It like makes a lot of us want to go put on our running shoes. Even if we never run like, Oh, I’m motivated now I’m inspired. You think about Amazon? 

[00:08:33] It’s like, I can get anything I want. This is great. I need something. It’s like comfort that it gives us to just have something like that.  Think about someone who’s like more of, not a company, but like a personal brand, like Will Smith.  You know, he, especially in his earlier movies, very entertaining. 

[00:08:48] He gave us feelings of like happiness, joy, laughter. So these brands. They evoke feelings. And if you can think about that, as long as you lead with, I’m going to educate, I’m going to entertain. I’m going to inspire you lead with some feeling that you want to translate to somebody else to your audience. That’s where you’re going to make that connection online. 

[00:09:11]Andrew[00:09:11] That’s brilliant.  I think it’s not just online Katie. I think whether in any sort of form, if we walking into a meeting or just on a call, but so much. Isn’t that a great way to approach it. Maybe just as we’re getting ready mentally for this to think, what type of feelings do I want to convey or are be interpreted as a perceived as by the end of this call, and I think it gets us to focus on doing the right things. I think that’s great advice. 

[00:09:33] Katie: [00:09:33] Yeah. And it’s not taking away the pressure of what you say or what you write it’s how do you want people to feel. 

[00:09:39] Andrew: [00:09:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s actually a quite noble thing to do. It’s not, it’s all very sales or marketing at all. I mean that’s in everyone’s gift to be able to just have that ability to think that whether they’re trying to build an online presence, or actually, you know, there’s an interesting phrase I heard recently I’d love to bounce it off here was something about social media. 

[00:09:55] And it’s like when there was the age of the microphone was invented, people could then be heard more easily. And if you are a good singer, that was great, right? People want to hear good singers, but if you’re a bad singer, you’re still a bad singer. Just the microphone is amplifying it. What I think that’s what the person was trying to say with social media is if you’re not trying to, probably in this case, give the right feelings on people as a brand or whatever. 

[00:10:18]Then all social media doing is getting the wrong feelings across. So you need to get the feelings right. You’re looking to get across, and then you’ve got this powerful tool, this virtual digital world let’s go amplify your message.  And how you want to be perceived. I mean, it’s a really great opportunity out there. Isn’t it? 

[00:10:34] Katie: [00:10:34] Oh, yeah, absolutely. It’s an opportunity that so many of our peers prior to us, they didn’t have, and it’s an advantage whether you are looking. Say to create bigger impact, like directly in your company, in the industry to find a new job, to start your own company, be your own boss, like whatever it is, maybe you’re looking for employees. 

[00:10:59] It’s, what do you want to do with this platform and how are you going to, create feelings and do that for others? 

[00:11:06]Andrew[00:11:06] yeah, there was another thing out there I’d love to get your thoughts on it for audiences is Google, right? Sometimes you say you should Google your name and see what comes up. I mean, is that good advice, bad advice, should people be good at Googling their names and seeing what comes up? 

[00:11:22] Katie: [00:11:22] So I think that you should, because you never know what’s out there about you and you can actually set up alerts through Google and put in your name. So basically anytime you’re mentioned. On a website or an even a social media post depending on the platform, typically Google indexes with that platform or that site. 

[00:11:42] And so you’ll actually get an email that says like, Hey, Andrew was mentioned in the news and I’ll give a link to the post. So it’s pretty easy to monitor it. And then of course Googling it. You can see past information. 

[00:11:54]Andrew[00:11:54] Yeah, that sounds really good. Good advice for our audience. I’d be interested to see what shows up for people. 

[00:11:58] Katie: [00:11:58] Yeah, and it’s free to do. 

[00:12:00] Andrew: [00:12:00] yes, I was thinking even better. Accountants love free right. 

[00:12:03] Katie: [00:12:03] Yep. 

[00:12:06]Andrew[00:12:06] But I suppose I think a key theme, or you said it here was, it was connection, creating connections. 

[00:12:11] And I think that’s quite a meaningful task, isn’t it? I mean, you know, yes. A lot of our work involves around numbers and make better decisions and stuff, but building connections or people that’s just quite meaningful. What are your thoughts? 

[00:12:23] Katie: [00:12:23] Yeah. And in order to create connections there’s kind of  called the 4C process that allows you to really do that. Because if you just start putting messages out into the world, social media is a big place and you may not get heard. So in order to get your message out there and really create these feelings that you’re trying to instill in others, you can follow this 4C process. 

[00:12:47] And the first thing is going to be choose. So choose your platform that you want to be on. There’s a lot of platforms. And when you’re choosing a platform, you need to really think about two things. Don’t over think it, but two pieces of information. I would give you to help you pick one or one. What platform are your people on? 

[00:13:06] So who are you trying to reach and where are they at? This might be multiple platforms. So maybe it’s LinkedIn, maybe it’s in Facebook and Instagram. I don’t know. But  you probably know. And then two what platform plays to your strengths. So if you’re like, okay, my people are on, let’s say they’re on Instagram and they’re also on LinkedIn. 

[00:13:25] And I get to question number two and I’m like, well, I really don’t like posting pictures, but I like writing content or like little posts, then LinkedIn is probably better. But if you’re like, Hey, I really just like pictures and that’s really what I like to do. 

[00:13:39] Most finance professionals probably lean towards LinkedIn,  but my point is you don’t want to pick a platform. That’s going to set  you up for failure. 

[00:13:48] Andrew: [00:13:48] Yeah. 

[00:13:48] Katie: [00:13:48] So that choose is number one. Once we’ve chosen our platform, we need to connect with our people. Now, when you’re connecting with your people, there’s a few different ways you can do this. 

[00:13:59] You can find them directly. So maybe you are on LinkedIn and you look at people by their industry, their titles,  their location,  maybe you are using like hashtags, which that could be Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, some of the other platforms, a lot of them use hashtags, or another way I really like to find my people is. 

[00:14:20] Actually ask yourself who has the attention of my people. So let’s say that we know a key influencer.  Maybe we are really trying to find like entrepreneurs, for example, and we know Russell Brunson, a lot of entrepreneurs follow him. This is a very broad example. Hopefully for those listening, they can find a more specific 

[00:14:41] Andrew: [00:14:41] Yeah. 

[00:14:42] Katie: [00:14:42] But you can find people that have already built up the audience that you want go to their Facebook group, go to their page and see who’s liked it. Go see who’s commented on their posts and use that as like your launch board. Because if you can, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. There’s no point for you to try to do so right? 

[00:15:04] So use influencers and really leverage their audience and also try to just leverage them as well. And since that, maybe you can collaborate with them. Maybe you don’t have like a competing offer anything. And there’s ways that you can say, Hey. If you are open to it, I’d love to do a podcast or a live with you and provide value in this way. 

[00:15:23] And you’d be surprised at how many people say yes. So choose your platform, connect with your people. And now we’ve got to converse with them. So we found them, maybe we added him as a friend. Now we need to convert. And that’s the third step. And now conversing, you don’t have to think of it like some sort of pitch or anything weird. 

[00:15:43] You can converse with people like. Commenting back to them. Maybe you see a post and they’re talking about their new desk and you say, wow, that’s really interesting. What brand is it? You can make it really just natural or maybe you found them in a Facebook group and you saw, Hey, there, they’re actually looking for an accountant at work with. 

[00:16:04] You can go and comment on their posts, say, Hey, I noticed that you’re looking for an accountant. Tell me a little bit more about your business. I’d love to learn and share some ways that we help businesses and see if maybe we can help you too. It doesn’t have to be like, you’re looking for an accountant. 

[00:16:16] Pick me, pick me, pick no one likes that right? So it’s finding natural conversation starters.  So we chose our platform. We connected with our audience. Now we’re going to converse and finally it’s create and creation is the creation of content for our audience. Remembering what feelings we want to give them. 

[00:16:37] We can educate them. We can entertain them. We can inspire them. There’s a lot of other feelings, but those three usually cover a lot of ground and education is going to be a really easy and comfortable way for most professionals to jump into content. So ask yourself, what are the three questions that I most commonly ask? 

[00:16:56] Ask yourself. What are the things that really keep the person you’re trying to talk to up at night?  Or maybe. What resources are they looking for? So it’s easy, or I would say like the business owner, there’s a lot of content ideas out there for them. But what about if you’re in an office and you’re a senior analyst.  Maybe like, what are you looking for? What resources do you wish that others had? What books are you reading? That really helped you perform better. That kind of stuff. You know, if you had those questions or went through those struggles, other people are looking for that information too, and you can create endless content about it.  

[00:17:34] Andrew: [00:17:34] That’s just, I love the four CS. I got to have to go through them again, Katie, after the podcast just to really absorb them because, I just think they’re awesome like this, and again, I was thinking to myself, she was just saying that. Like, we should all be sort of doing this in some sort of way. 

[00:17:49] Right? Because that way we’re going to not only, give others a better experience, it gets connect with people which is super meaningful anyway, but also. Get a lot out of ourselves, and enjoy what we’re doing a lot more. I’m not sure that’s why we set up this podcast because it was like, I’m quite uncomfortable asking directly for help particularly for mentors in finance who know a lot about things more than I do. 

[00:18:12] I certainly don’t know everything there is to know about finance and accounting. But I’m very okay asking for help on behalf of other people. And I talk a lot so, and I gauge the conversation so podcasting quite natural to do. And that’s why, I guess it probably grew because you’re providing a lot of value for people and they want to tune in and they want to listen and isn’t it much better to understand. 

[00:18:33] While path might be in front of you and then progress that path much faster. So mentoring is key. It’s just, again, helping all the people access it. So there’s so many ways that we can do this digitally. And then I was thinking, wouldn’t it be great if we could take some of the four CS and put them into our day-to-day work within our organizations, not necessarily externally, but internally. 

[00:18:53] And like that’s about getting sponsorship, connecting with the right people with the better networks, helping understand their challenges, being a service to them. Delivering value for them. And it’s about creating that experience. So absolutely awesome advice Katie. There was one other thing you said earlier, which was know, like, trust. 

[00:19:10] I’ve heard of that before. How are you saying this? What is it and how are you using that? 

[00:19:16] Katie: [00:19:16] So the know like, and trust. I think about the know piece is like people know you and you can become known for good things. You can also become known for not so great things, but hopefully you’re on this path of becoming a thought leader and becoming known in your space, whatever space that is that you want to be known in. 

[00:19:36] You’re getting known. And then over time people become to like you. So content is a great way to do that because as you are sharing your content and how you deliver your messages hopefully you can intertwine some stories, some things that you’ve done along the way, sharing your wins, sharing your losses. 

[00:19:55] However you want to share your story, whatever you’re open to sharing. That’s always going to help connect to the audience and get them to like you, because they feel like they know you and they like you. A little piece about like the stories is, a lot of people can share the same information. 

[00:20:11]There’s really not a lot of new information these days. And that’s a hangup for a lot of people when they come to create content, they’re like, well, my content is just, it’s gonna be boring or this has already been said, and it’s like, it’s not what your content exactly what you’re delivering. 

[00:20:26] It’s how you’re delivering it and how you’re intertwining your unique experiences and teachings. So they know they like you, and then they trust you as you continue to deliver that value that you’re talking about. You continue to show up. You’re constantly there and a resource. That’s how you’re going to build the know like, and trust. 

[00:20:45] And this continues to build over time. So maybe, you start out with posting and then say like a online magazine contacts, you and wants you to do an article where you get brought on the podcast. And so they start seeing you more places. And it just it’s this whole, it’s like a, really a circle, the know like, and trust, and it just keeps feeding itself. 

[00:21:05]Andrew[00:21:05] I love that. Thanks for sharing. I think that’s very useful advice Katie I’d love also to get a, obviously expand your journey today, but  I’d love to know, what’s exciting you most about your current work? 

[00:21:15] Katie: [00:21:15] It’s really the opportunity there for everyone, especially in like accounting and finance space. It’s pretty new for us to be online and creating content. And with that presents a lot of opportunity because there’s not as much competition. So like, if you want to get in and stand out and do this, like go all in because for most accounting and finance professionals. It’s going to be a little bit easier for you to gain traction compared to say, if you’re like in the health and fitness industry, which they got on this a long time ago. 

[00:21:45]Andrew[00:21:45] Yeah. that’s a good, that’s a good actually. And then you were thinking it is a great opportunity at the moment. But I think we were talking off air and particularly for some of us, who’ve been around our organizations a bit more familiar, been around a bit longer. It’s probably easier. 

[00:21:58] We’ve more established networks, but for people trying to break through, say, within their organizations and trying to create a space where it’s probably a bit more challenging and a bit new people don’t really know them as much are just some simple things they can start doing. Particularly like with COVID everything’s virtual nowadays meetings and virtual you, you’re not around the office as much, perhaps people don’t see you. 

[00:22:18]How do we maintain our build presence where we’re sort of new to an organization or an area? 

[00:22:23] Katie: [00:22:23] So I think about it this way. If you walk into a cocktail party, we’ll pretend that we’re still having them right now, but no one knows you and you stand in the corner. What’s going to happen. Probably no, one’s going to talk to you like you. If you’re brand new, it’s going to be your job to go introduce yourself. 

[00:22:42] Talk to people, engage with people. And the same is true online. So you can’t just post and leave. You’re going to have to go comment on other people’s posts. When people add you just spin a few seconds to send them a voice message back, say hello, say, thank you, great for connecting,  reach out to them. 

[00:22:59] How can I help you? Or really it’s just thinking about any way that you can say. Thanks for connecting. How are you?  And just showing people that you notice them, because once you’re the one that put yourself out there, a lot of times people are super receptive to talking back. Whether that’s a message back engaging on your posts, whatever it may be, but you’ve got to go out there and talk to them. 

[00:23:21] Andrew: [00:23:22] Okay. I agree with you. People are, you know, not everyone’s going to have the time to engage in conversation, but more often than not. I think it’s the more you do it, the more success you’re going to have it, it’s a simple, simple math. So that’s, but you’re giving us fantastic advice, Katie, but I’m curious to know what’s been the best bit of advice you’ve ever received. 

[00:23:41] Katie: [00:23:41] So it’s gonna sound really cliche, but it’s really just to like embrace your youness because as we continue to grow in our skillset, you become more clear that your skills are more geared in certain directions and just even from a fundamental level, like some people are really good at drawing. 

[00:24:07] Some people are really good at math and the more you can recognize those things that you’re really, really good at and you just embrace them. That’s really what helps you succeed, whether it’s just being more of you online, more of you in your job, more accepting of you on a project, how you communicate with people, those kinds of things. 

[00:24:26] That’s the best piece of advice because anytime you’re trying to be someone or something, you’re not, it’s really difficult. And I can relate this all the way back to me, like getting out of public accounting. I was doing a good job in my role and getting put into positions that others hadn’t having worked there that long, but that wasn’t me. 

[00:24:46] And I couldn’t just stay in that position. So you’ve got to be you. 

[00:24:51]Andrew[00:24:51] I’ve just had my little jealous stoke because it seems like you did that much earlier in your career than I did. You know, you understood like what your strengths were and you went and pursued them. And I think it, it doesn’t matter what stage you are. I think. Just identify what you enjoy doing, what you’re strong at and be more you. 

[00:25:10] I think that’s great advice Katie. That’s a nice challenge now for our audience to go pick up and take on. And I suppose, in terms of resources, were there any sort of resources you access or books, your access that you might recommend our audience? Go check out. 

[00:25:24] Katie: [00:25:24] So I listened to a lot of books on audible. Pretty much if it’s like in the top categories, I’m going to give it a try and you like some of them you don’t, but how to win friends and influence people. That book  it’s been out there a long time, but it’s one I always come back to because it’s all about how do you work with people and win them over? 

[00:25:42] And it’s not manipulative in any way, but even things like if you say their names. So, Hey, Andrew, thanks for having me on is more impactful than, Hey, thanks for having me on. So I think we’re learning that is super valuable. So you can make people feel better whenever you’re interacting with them. 

[00:26:01] Andrew: [00:26:01] actually, I came across  you recommended that one Katie absolute game changer for me. I came across it after one of those organizational psychological assessments. And they said, you’re really good in all these categories. It’s just this emotional one here could do better. 

[00:26:16] So it’s like, go read this book and it’s just completely, you said it’s an old one, but it’s timeless. And I think they’ve even rewritten it for the digital age as well. So great recommendation. I encourage folks and it’s on audible as well to go check it out, great call. 

[00:26:29]I suppose in terms of, if our audience wish to continue the conversation together, where’s the best place to connect with you at. 

[00:26:35] Katie: [00:26:35] So I’m on linkedIn, Instagram, Facebook I’m Katie Thomas CPA, everywhere. Just my name. And then my website’s www.leaders-online.com. And you can always schedule a time to chat with me there. 

[00:26:50]Andrew[00:26:50] That’s awesome. Actually, talk about the Google thing earlier. If we were to put Katie Thomas CPA in, I think you’d probably take the first hundred listings easily on Google. So she was such a great job. So I don’t know all those platforms. So thanks Katie for sharing that. And I suppose, look, we’ve had a great interview. 

[00:27:07] Really appreciate you sharing your insights, the four CS model, the know like trust. How to build presence of this virtual age, would there be any sort of parting thoughts you might have for our audience before we wrap up? 

[00:27:20] Katie: [00:27:20] My advice would to just always like lead with empathy and just care whether you’re talking about building an online presence or you’re having a conversation with your boss and employee, anyone, as long as you just know at the end of the day, you’re human and they’re human things are going to go well,  that’s the best you can do. 

[00:27:40] So I think that that’s one skill that’s really undervalued in our profession and it’s not talked about, and it’s so important, no matter what you’re trying to do or who you’re trying to talk to. 

[00:27:50] Andrew: [00:27:50] That’s it. Yeah I know we call this strength in the numbers, but it really is human interactions and making the most out of our decisions based on those numbers together.  So Katie, thank you so much for being such a great guest coming on, strength in the numbers today. 

[00:28:03] Katie: [00:28:03] Thanks Andrew for having me, appreciate it. 

[00:28:06]  

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