#354: How Finance Can Really Save the World with Bertrand Badré

Our Guest Mentor: 

Bertrand Badré is currently the Managing Partner and Founder of Blue like an Orange Sustainable Capital, and the Former Managing Director, Group CFO of the World Bank, as well as Group CFO at some well-known global banks. He has authored several books such as “Can Finance Save The World?: Regaining Power Over Money To Serve the Common Good” with forewords from Emmanuel Macron and Gordon Brown, and “Do we (seriously) want to change the world?” with a foreword from Erik Orsenna. 

Badré holds a Master’s degree in History from La Sorbonne, after graduating from the renowned business school HEC Paris in 1989 and is based out of Paris, France. 

Key Quotes from the Episode: 

[On finance & money] “Finance is a very powerful tool. It’s a tool that we have invented to address space and time.” [08:56] 

[On business] “The point I’m making [is] where it says the purpose of business should not be to increase profits only. It should be to find profitable solution to the problems of this planet and its people.” [09:41] 

[On profit] “there are many ways to calculate profit and profit for me is nothing more, nothing less of an outcome. And so how do you define that outcome is critical.” [09:52] 

[On change] “And that’s a problem. For every quarter, when you close your accounts, I can tell you, obsession is to close your accounts. It’s not the future of the planet. This is the way. So if we don’t address that we just cannot rely on the goodwill of whoever to change the world. We need trailblazers and pioneers. But more importantly, we need a systemic change and the systemic change, because I’ve done that for my entire financial life, is the rules and regulation and the market pressure. If it doesn’t change, forget about the rest, it will not happen. [16:20] 

[On life advice] “You have to accept the risk of getting dirt on your hands. You have to accept the risk of making mistakes. And for me, it’s extremely important. I’ve seen so many people say, Oh, you shouldn’t do this and that, because this is better. I said, okay, but in real life, what do you do? Oh, it’s difficult. Yeah, but then. Take your risk. Be honest. This is a risk you’re taking don’t fool yourself. And move to action.” [21:41] 

Key Points from the Episode: 

  • How a key lunch meeting as an investment banker that he was about to cancel, but led into some amazing opportunities & an inspirational mentor for life 
  • Why Finance is so exciting at the moment and we’re at the start of a new revolution changing the world through finance 
  • Why finance is a good servant, but poor master 
  • The main new global challenges to us today & why we have all the pieces to the jigsaw now to do something about them  
  • Why we need trailblazers and pioneers. 
  • Accepting the risks of making mistakes and moving to action 

Stamped Show Notes 

[03:43] Bertrand gives a brief introduction to his journey in finance 

[05:30] Standout moments from Bertrand’s career, and a key lunch meeting as an investment banker that he was about to cancel, but led into some amazing opportunities & a mentor for life, as well as the importance of giving back 

[07:30] Why Bertrand made the comment when he was CFO that he preferred people to figures 

[08:38] Bertrand expounds further on the idea from his book that “finance is a good servant, but poor master” 

[10:20] We discuss the importance of assumptions in financial models 

[11:00] Why Finance is so exciting at the moment and we’re at the start of a new revolution 

[12:39] We deconstruct the main new global challenges to us today & why we have all the pieces to the jigsaw now to do something about them 

[13:39] What’s causing a fragmentation of the world and the willpower to change, and why the conviction of consumers, workers, citizens and investors is important 

[16:23] Why we need trailblazers and pioneers. 

[17:19] What’s exciting Bertrand most about his current work 

[21:01] Bertrand mentions the best advice he has ever received 

[22:17] Resources Bertrand recommends 

[22:55] where best to connect with Bertrand 

[23:27] Bertrand gives his parting thoughts for the audience 

Resources Mentioned: 

Can Finance Save the World?: Regaining Power over Money to Serve the Common Good Paperback – January 30, 2018 by  Bertrand Badré (Author), Emmanuel Macron (Foreword), Gordon Brown (Foreword) 

Impact: Reshaping Capitalism to Drive Real Change Hardcover – November 3, 2020 by Sir Ronald Cohen (Author) 

Prosperity: Better Business Makes the Greater Good 1st Edition by Colin Mayer (Author) 

Value(s): Building a Better World for All Hardcover – May 25, 2021 by Mark Carney (Author) 

Connect with today’s guest: 

Website: https://www.bertrandbadre.com/  (Mark to Planet) 

LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bertrand-badré-90000446/  

Full Transcript: 

[00:00:30] Andrew: Hi everyone. And welcome to this week’s strength in the numbers and really, really excited to share with you today. Our guest mentor, Bertrand Badré 

[00:00:39] And an interesting fact with having Betrand on the show is that when preparing the show notes he was one of the few guest mentors. Who’s got a whole Wikipedia page about him because his career is just completely amazing.  

[00:00:52] I mean, Bertrand’s currently a managing partner and founder of blue, like an orange sustainable capital. And before that ex managing director group, CFO of the world bank. Group CFO of some very large global banks 

[00:01:05] or sir teacher. 

[00:01:07] In fact, one of his books on finance can save the world, had forwards from the current French president and former UK prime minister. 

[00:01:15] So Bertrand’s gained some very key global insights throughout his career and share some of them with us today. And it’s not just his career. During this interview, we cover so many really great things, so many fantastic takeaways. 

[00:01:28] Early on, we discussed how, when he was a investment banker earlier in his career, he was about to cancel this lunch that’s one of his university professors that set up 

[00:01:38] but instead, he decided to make the trip to us from London to Paris. And it led to some amazing opportunities, as well as gaining an inspirational mentor for life. So Bertrand’s a big believer in the importance of giving. Also why finance is so exciting at the moment and how potentially we’re actually at the start of a new revolution where we can perhaps change the world who finance, in fact, maybe even saved the world in some respects, but to get that, we need to appreciate a few ideas. 

[00:02:08] So Bertram shares. With us a thought from one of his books, why finance a good servant, but perhaps a poor master. And then beyond that, we go into some of today’s global challenges and why Bertrand’s actually quite optimistic. He feels that we have a lot of the pieces in the jigsaw to do something about them now, but why we also need some trailblazers and Pines. 

[00:02:31] And as we’re wrapping up some fantastic advice from Bertrand, won’t give it all away, but definitely worth listening into, because it involves a very important principle. Do what we need to move into action. 

[00:02:42] Just want to say a big, thanks again to Bertrand for making the time for this. He was a, you had a lot going on and was about to jump on a plane. So really appreciate him fitting us in his very tight schedule. 

[00:02:54] Before we get to the interview. Just want to say thanks again, for all of you who keep recommended a show to your friends and colleagues, and you can subscribe on all the major platforms, iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, YouTube, Spotify, and Amazon music. 

[00:03:07] And if you do want to know more about Bertrand check out our website, sitnshow.com where you can find detail, timestamp, show notes, key quotes, ways to connect with Bertrand and more I guess that’s enough for me for now. So without further ado, over to Bertrand and the show.  

[00:03:22] So Bertrand, welcome the show.  

[00:03:30] Bertrand: Thank you.  

[00:03:32] Andrew: It’s our pleasure to have you on. Some of our audience actually might be familiar with you. We talked about your book a few weeks ago on the show. 

[00:03:38] So would you mind giving a brief introduction to your journey in finance, please? 

[00:03:42] Bertrand: Yeah. Well actually, it’s a long journey because I was a good student in high school. In France, being a good student meant being good in mathematics, in figures. Based on that, I was directed to a business school. In business school, I majored in finance because this was the way you went when you were okay. 

[00:03:59] After I graduated, I wanted to do further study, but they had borrowed money from my business school, so I had to reimburse. So I had to work in parallel to my second school. And the first job I found was to be the deputy CEO of a mid-sized company. And so I took it. So I went back in finance and then I went to the school of public service in France called ENA. Graduated okay. I was second. Tradition means that the good students go into the Ministry of Finance. So I went to finance. I spent four years as a minister of finance, and I wanted to move overseas and a job. And one that really fits what I was expecting was Lazard in London and New York. So finance again. One step after the other I tend to finance more and more. And it was okay actually. I did not resist, but that’s way to happened. If you had asked me at 18 that I would spend my life in finance, I probably would not have believed you.  

[00:04:53] Andrew: Yeah. 

[00:04:54] Bertrand: But that’s it. And then, one step after the other, I stayed into that course and I’ve discovered that one of the thing I like is to use finance, which I think is a very powerful tool to try to address the world’s most pressing issues. 

[00:05:05] I did not dream about this when I was 18, but I’m okay to have found my way 35 years later. 

[00:05:11] Andrew: Yeah. And I know you quickly skim through it there Bertrand, but you’ve had an amazing career. Given all that’s happened, I’d love to get your point about finance as a tool to do better. Is there any particular standout moments in your mind from your career that you said, Oh my God, I’m really glad I got into finance now.  

[00:05:28] Bertrand: There were several turning points. If I have to take one which has been quite decisive and could not have happened, actually. I was invited to when I was starting in London as an investment banker for Lazard. I was 30 or 31, whatever. So not that young, but young in the business. 

[00:05:45] And I was invited to have a lunch with Michel Camdessus, who just had left the IMF where he was Head of the IMF, but retiring ahead of the IMF. By one of my former professor, we say why don’t you come to Paris to have lunch with Mr. Camdessus. And so I was interested but I remember the day before, I was in London, I say my God, I have so much work. Why should I get to Paris? What’s this thing that was about to come from this. And finally I did not and I came and it was a very nice lunch. Nothing happened, but 18 months later, Michel Camdessus called me back and said, I’d like to work with you. And that’s how I fell into working on the financing of access to water. That’s when I moved from also being an advisor to President Chirac. And that’s why the headhunter called me for the World Bank job 15 years later. And I really know that if I had not come to that lunch, things would probably have to very differently. 

[00:06:36] Andrew: It’s mad how one conversation just like that could be so pivotable. One decision at one point in time.  

[00:06:42] Bertrand: And Michel Camdessus become, since that day my mentor, my spiritual father, my source of inspiration, et cetera. And I’m glad I came. Yes.  

[00:06:51] Andrew: Actually it’s funny the power mentors can have like that. That’s the whole reason for this show as our audience know. it’s just a great way of giving back because mentors have so much to offer.  

[00:06:59] Bertrand: Yeah, that’s why I’ve always told people that’s an issue because now I can’t say no and sometimes becoming difficult, but that’s one of the many reasons why today, when younger people ask me to help them or mentor them, et cetera. Usually I say yes, because I was a type of guy that does ask a lot from people older than me. And so I have to give back. Yes.  

[00:07:19] Andrew: It’s a tough one, but maybe in future, Bertrand, say you’re really busy, you can always say, look, go check out this podcast first that I did where I shared some of my thoughts. It allows you to scale your time better now, so that’s the way I look at it. 

[00:07:30] Bertrand: One day, I shocked my team actually in one of the bank where I was CFO, where I told them I’m a CFO that prefer people to figures. And they did not understand what I meant. They thought I was Dismissive is his job. And I told them, this is not the point, but the point is that, and that is true, I really like people, I really enjoy discovering the personal story of people, their personal ambitions, how I can help. Etcetera. This is what really drives me in life.  

[00:07:55] Andrew: think we’re two kindred spirits on that one, Bertrand. Yeah, definitely. I know we work with numbers, but really it’s the people that we work with that work with the numbers. Yeah, no, I completely understand. Thanks for touching on those items. I’d love to pick your brains because as you said, you wrote this book, “Can Finance save the world?”. I have to say, there’s some really lovely points in there. The first one, I think our audience can help with. Bear in mind, our audience, a lot of them are in senior finance position, getting into finance, growing their careers there. They can help influence the decision-making agenda within their companies across the 170 countries they’re in at the moment.  

[00:08:27] In the book, you intimate the idea that finance is a good servant, but poor master. What are you trying to get at there, maybe so our audience can understand what you mean by that. 

[00:08:35] Bertrand: I think it’s a poor tool. It’s very much connected. And I just published a book in French, which is a kind of a sequel of the previous one, which is called, “Do we (seriously) want to change the world?”. My point is that we still live under the Friedman premises that the social purpose of business is to make profit and supported by the financial models that we’ve developed over the last 50 years. 

[00:08:56] And my point is that finance is a very powerful tool. It’s a tool that we have invented to address space and time. With money, I didn’t show the instruments, you can project yourself 10 or 20 or 50 years down the road. Our governments have bureau of a hundred years now. That’s pretty interesting. But you can also go overseas. This is really is the way you can move outside of your place. So it’s an amazing tool. But the issue is that when it’s becoming an end to an end, you miss the point and then you alienate the people. The point I’m making, and this is really something I’ve discussed in particular with people that come in my year in Oxford, where it says the purpose of business should not be to increase profits only. It should be to find profitable solution to the problems of this planet and its people. So it means that, as I often say, profit is revenues minus cost, to be very simplistic. 

[00:09:44] But being the finance guy, I can tell you hundreds of ways to calculate revenues and one hundred ways to calculate costs. So there are many ways to calculate profit and profit for me is nothing more, nothing less of an outcome. And so how do you define that outcome is critical.  

[00:09:58] Financial models. I’ve spent my life reviewing and doing financial models. You have to make assumptions. You have to take different things into consideration. So today there is a big discussion of price of carbon, tomorrow there might be a big discussion on the price of nature and biodiversity and the day after tomorrow, the price of social diversity and so on and so forth. So there is nothing that prevent us from making our models more sophisticated. And adding to the risk return equilibrium. You can call impact, or you can call it sustainability. You can call it whatever you want. Really we incur finance into the real world.  

[00:10:33] Andrew: That’s a really interesting point. I was talking to an American CFO about this. And my sense was maybe we didn’t factor in all those costs to go into that profit calculation because we just thought they were too difficult or maybe didn’t put our minds behind it, but there are genuine costs. And they are part of the profit calculation. 

[00:10:48] Bertrand: Of course. And that’s beside the point. So I think it’s very exciting to be in finance today and I always encourage my students to do that because I believe that we are the dawn of a new era in finance.  

[00:10:58] The way actually I was, when I was a student in business school, 35 years ago, it was a new era. We were discovering with great enthusiasm the shareholder capitalism and all these things, and it seemed great. They say, my God, I’m at the right place at the right moment that we enjoy. And 35years later, I enjoy but I’ve also seen the limits and now we have to get this outlier for the next ten years. 

[00:11:18] Andrew: I liked the way you set down that challenge, Bertrand. Maybe it’s because, let’s say there’s been a lot of digital revolution in the finance and accounting world, in theory, freeing up human beings’ time to focus on more valuable things. I don’t think anything more valuable than looking at longer term risks, or maybe towards some sustainable development goals. 

[00:11:36] There’s plenty of opportunities for us to go and add value when you have the platform.  

[00:11:40] Bertrand: We have many challenges today. You mentioned climate, obviously, but social inequalities is also one. Nature and biodiversity is another one. And the sanitary crisis. And so we have a lot of global challenges which are new to us. So since we’ve been living relatively okay for the last 50 years, we are very nervous with the business challenges. But I remember I spoke a few weeks ago with the guy surviving the world war. And we are discussing, can you imagine the end of the Second World War, that was also not that easy. And then we have had the best years ever in the story of humanity. So we should stop lamenting and we should say guys, we’ve never had that much money. We never had that much technological capacity. We have, all the institutions we need, I don’t need to reinvent the UN or the EUs. These institutions they do exist. We have to leverage them. We have to make them work.  

[00:12:29] That being said, it’s easier said than done but the reality is that, as I said in one of my posts doing the first lockdown, it’s like a puzzle. I think we have all the pieces, but now it’s time to try to put them together. And we know the roadmap, we have the sustainable development goals. We have the COP26 agreement. We have all the money. And again, we have even more money than we thought two years ago. Thanks to the COVID. So there was really a flush of money everywhere. The digitalization is accelerating at a pace. What is preventing us really addressing this questions here. 

[00:13:01] Andrew: I completely agree with all of the above, Bertrand. There’s great desire within our audience to try and progress this. Is there the willpower at the necessary levels in society to go make the change or are we just happy? It’s like the example of the heart patients to receive the American researchers. They followed up with patients who’d undergone heart surgery to see if they had adopted healthier lifestyle after their surgery. And they found out that only one in nine had indeed adopted a healthier lifestyle. 

[00:13:27] So they knew the risks and that it was important to change, but most of them went back to their old habits that weren’t good for themselves. Do you think the willpower is there to change on this one? 

[00:13:36] Bertrand: The issue we are facing is that in 1945, there was a clear US leader. And basically whether you like it or not, you follow into battle. And it went okay. Then in the 1970s you had clearly an Anglo-Saxon lead who is Thatcher, Reagan and the likes. France tried to resist for two years and then Britain. The point today is that there is no master of the world. When you vote for Brexit, you clearly abandon any universal posture. When you vote for America first, the saying the Chinese Dream is not called a universal dream and so on. So there is a fragmentation of the world, and there is no master of the worlds that when in terms of okay, this is the new way.  

[00:14:11] So we have adopted in 2015, this roadmap, the Sustainable Development Goals on Climate, but there was no enforcement capacity. And that’s the issue. So we all are, Hey, no, I can’t do anything. So I hope that somebody will impose this on, but there is no  

[00:14:26] And that’s a challenge. We are to point where it has to work at every level. So of course we have to expect that the nations will find a way. We shouldn’t fool ourselves, it’s not going to be enough. So we expect the investors. So we have all these big alliance of pension funds or asset manager, et cetera. That’s the point.  

[00:14:43] The consumer, all the people. I guess I remember Paul Polman when he was CEO of Unilever, and you will change the course of the company. And I told him, why do you do that? He already gets my conviction, but also because we can’t attract any talent. 

[00:14:56] And so if the young people say, I don’t want to work for that company because I don’t behave properly. If consumers say I don’t want to buy this product because you have pressure. Market pressure is a real thing. So I think we have to fight on two fronts. On the one end, market pressure from competitors, from investors, from workers, from intrepreneurs, from civil servants, from everybody, from you and me at the everyday. 

[00:15:16] But of course you and me, we are probably more influenced than the average but still we can do something. Now added to that, we have really, to push as citizens in particular for change in regulation. Of course it’s difficult. Nobody will make the decision for us.  

[00:15:31] I finished my last book with this quote from Tolstoy who said, “Everybody wants to change the world. Nobody wants to change himself.” 

[00:15:40] My kids make fun of me every time I don’t use properly those a selective garbage boxes. Whenever I take a plane. It’s that right? It’s difficult. We would all like the world to get better without myself making too much of an effort.  

[00:15:53] Andrew: Yeah. That’s a great point.  

[00:15:54] Bertrand: We have to help people to be, I don’t want to say to be virtuous, but I really want the system to incorporate this. That’s why I say to incorporate the price of carbon, for instance, in accounting, what is doing with Harvard on Impact-Weighted Accounting. 

[00:16:07] We have to discuss a few issues with the people managing your money. We have to discuss governance, rules of boards, et cetera, because this will help to build the right decks today. You have nothing in the system that will reward you for being in the right direction, nothing for punishing you going in the wrong direction.  

[00:16:21] And that’s a problem. For every quarter, when you close your accounts, I can tell you, obsession is to close your accounts. It’s not the future of the planet. This is the way. So if we don’t address that we just cannot rely on the goodwill of whoever to change the world. We need trailblazers and pioneers. But more importantly, we need a systemic change and the systemic change, because I’ve done that for my entire financial life, is the rules and regulation and the market pressure. If it doesn’t change, forget about the rest, it will not happen.  

[00:16:50] Andrew: Yeah. I agree. And the first point you led with was the market pressure. I agree. But as citizens, we also have a role as well. There’s a market pressure. And I think that’s where our audience have a lot of influence here, whether they believe it or not they do. As employees, as investors, as people who support decisions. 

[00:17:05] Thank you so much, Bertrand, for delving into that. I want to be respectful of your time. So we’ll start wrapping up shortly. But before we do, I’d love to understand, what’s exciting you most about your current work?  

[00:17:16] Bertrand: It’s very interesting because we are at this precise moment where we have to change course. And because of my background, I have some influence, not that big, but not that small.  

[00:17:25] Andrew: Oh, come out here with your modesty. 

[00:17:26] Bertrand: No, but that’s true. I’m no longer in charge anywhere. So I’m trying to write, et cetera. 

[00:17:30] So when people ask me what I’m doing today, I say I’m doing two things. On the one end, I’m trying to do as much as possible within the system as it stands today. I’m using the systems, a framework, which is the system that we have to be. And within that system, you can see results and it’s okay. So I have to push the envelope as much as possible within that system and empower them. I’m trying to show and explain that this system is not a hundred percent okay. And it needs basically all of us to take our toolbox, open the hood and work on the engine. We have to dirty our hands and say, Okay, how do we address as the issues with the accounting standards, with the compensation policies, these reporting requirement, all of these things. 

[00:18:08] And so that’s pretty exciting because as I’ve said, I’m like Forrest Gump. I’ve been was not the plan. But I was there when the new economic collapse. I was there when we engage a new financing tools in Africa. I was there when the World Trade Center collapsed. I was at the World Bank when we reinvented the financial system. So I’ve seen it all. That was not a plan. I feel I have a particular duty to work on what comes next. Being at the juncture of the public and private influences.  

[00:18:35] One of the issue I see today that everybody’s in silos. You have the regulators, the central bankers the big banks in insurance, the small ones, the startups and everybody’s ignoring the others. That’s terrible.  

[00:18:48] Andrew: But, Bertrand is there enough people out there. A lot of audience could relate to that within their own companies. These siloed functions. These siloed business units and so on. But really is there enough people across society being able to rise above it and say, actually, there is silo thinking going on. This is not the best way of connecting the dots and being positive going forward. 

[00:19:06] Bertrand: I attended the big discussion actually, which was joined by John Kerry in France, two weeks ago on climate, which is one of the issues, not the only one. And I remember when I stood up and I say, I’m afraid we don’t get it. All the efforts we do on green finance, et cetera. We’re on track to go to more than two degrees, whatever happens. So we did have to continue to put the foot on the brake, and that’s very important that we continue. But now is probably the time to start thinking more seriously about what people call adaptation.  

[00:19:32] I was in Portland, Oregon three weeks ago. I can tell you one of the most prosperous cities basically was dead because they were under 113 or 115 Fahrenheit or 45, 48 Celsius. They were dead. I could not find a dinner at night because everything in Portland, Oregon. I’m not talking about Latin America or Africa. I’m talking about one of the most prosperous city on Earth.  

[00:19:55] Andrew: You’ve just given me a really great idea there. A lot of people have been doing continuity plannings around the pandemic that’s been going on. It’d be interesting to know how many organizations are doing planning for things like that. Extreme temperatures. Poor pollution. 

[00:20:08] Bertrand: Most of the focus is really on electric cars. Don’t misread what I say. I think it’s important to continue that direction, but I think we’ve started a little late. We are not totally fully serious about it.  

[00:20:19] So the likelihood that will succeed is unfortunately little. Because when people don’t feel the heat with the heat wave in the Northwest. There’s a rain and the flood in Germany and Belgium.  

[00:20:29] Andrew: Or snow in Texas. 

[00:20:30] Bertrand: Actually in Russia, more than 45 Celsius. And so on and so forth. So at some point, I guess it could accelerate, but we have to move on the two fronts because I believe that everything we do to mitigate is absolutely necessary and useful, but I’m afraid it’s not going to be sufficient.  

[00:20:47] Andrew: Yeah well, Bertrand, again I’m trying to be respectful of time, so maybe we need to regroup on that point. Look, you’ve given us some really great advice on the show, but what’s been the best bit of advice you’ve ever received?  

[00:20:58] Bertrand: It’s actually from Michel Camdessus. When he was the head of the IMF, he’s been criticized a lot because he was doing supposedly bad things to poor people. And he told me a great quote from a French writer from the early 20th century, Charles Péguy. Charles Péguy was a Christian writer, but socialist as well. Very interesting guy. And he was criticizing the philosopher Immanuel Kant. And he say, the people that want to keep their hands clean, they have no hands. Meaning, you can say, oh, you should do this and that. And then you become a philosopher and you write a book and it’s interesting. But if you really want change the world, you have to put your hands in the dirt and you have to,  

[00:21:36] Andrew: You have to roll the sleeves up. 

[00:21:37] Bertrand: Yeah, it’s more than that. You have to accept the risk of getting dirt on your hands. You have to accept the risk of making mistakes. And for me, it’s extremely important. I’ve seen so many people say, Oh, you shouldn’t do this and that, because this is better. I said, okay, but in real life, what do you do? Oh, it’s difficult. Yeah, but then. Take your risk. Be honest. This is a risk you’re taking don’t fool yourself. And move to action. I think this is really important. 

[00:22:02] Andrew: I love that saying, I think that’s going to be front and center of our podcast, Bertrand. Thank you for being such a great guest today. So Bertrand, would you recommend any resources, our audience go follow like books, websites, links, things like that.  

[00:22:14] Bertrand: Besides my own book obviously, 

[00:22:17] Andrew: Which we’ll put in the show notes. 

[00:22:19] Bertrand: Books which are very interesting today, I would mention a few.. One is from Sir Ronald Cohen called Impact, released last year, which is on the Impact Revolution. One from Colin Mayer who was a former Dean of the Saïd Business School in Oxford, a book called Prosperity. You have the book from Mark Carney, a former Governor of the Bank of England, which has just been released called Value(s). 

[00:22:40] I think these are pretty good books. Yeah.  

[00:22:43] Andrew: Yeah. Definitely Bertrand. So we’ll put links to those in the show notes, and I suppose if our audience have any sort of questions or wish to connect to get to know you more, where’s the best place to connect with you at?  

[00:22:52] Bertrand: I’m on all types of social network. I’ve created my own website. It’s called Marktoplanet. So it’s bertrandbadre.com and the real title is Marktoplanet because I want to move from a system which is mark-to-market to a system which is mark-to-planet. 

[00:23:07] Andrew: I love the play on words. God, I have never heard of that before. I get it. It’s great. I think a lot of our audience get it as well. That’s fantastic. Mark-to-planet. I look forward to checking that out. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show, Bertrand. 

[00:23:21] But before we let you go, you’ve got to any parting thoughts for our audience? 

[00:23:24] Bertrand: Go follow your dreams. I’ve seen so many people, which at the end of their career say, Oh, I wish I had done this and that. And the questions for me was a very real one. After the World Bank, I was not sure what to do when I go. And finally I made the decision with my partner to create my own business, which was never a plan. I wasn’t trained for that. I was not raised for that. And the reason why I took the risk, it’s because I didn’t know it was such a risk. I totally underestimated the difficulty of creating your own business. But I also didn’t want to wake up at 80 and say, Oh my God, as you’re working to do something, and I missed it, because I was scary, or I was nervous, or whatever. 

[00:23:59] What I tell my students usually at the last lesson of any course, I say, shut your eyes. What’s your dream? How do you want to be remembered in four years from now? And then put this somewhere in your brain. And there are many ways to get your dream. If you fail, it’s okay. You can fail. You can move right when you want to go left or left and you want to go right. This is absolutely fine. 

[00:24:17] Andrew: It’s not fatal. 

[00:24:18] Bertrand: Don’t betray your dreams because it will be tough to wake up w hen you realize that you moved too far away from your dream. 

[00:24:24] Andrew: Wow. That’s powerful words, Bertrand. Thank you so much for being such a great guest mentor coming on Strength In The Numbers today. Thank you.  

[00:24:30] Bertrand: You’re very welcome.  

[00:24:31]  

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